Campus split on guns

Senior Mark Edwards displays a firearm in his off-campus apartment. | ELLEN PARKINS / TTN
Senior Mark Edwards displays a firearm in his off-campus apartment. | ELLEN PARKINS / TTN

Last week, President Barack Obama delivered the first State of the Union Address of his second term, and toward the end of his speech, he discussed something that’s been a talking point for his administration since 26 people were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., in December 2012.

The president urged Congress to take up measures to control assault weapons across the country. At Temple, this political topic sparks debate among students and became prevalent following a 2011 incident involving then-student Robert Eells who returned fire during an attempted burglary with his own weapon.

Some students, like senior history major Mark Edwards, own weapons for the purpose of protection.

“I have an AR-15 rifle and a Glock-26 pistol,” he said.

Edwards also said he possesses a concealed carry license and has been carrying for almost a year. He has never had to use his gun for a safety situation.

“Luckily I’ve never been in a situation where I’ve had to do that, I’ve never had to pull it out of its holster a single time,” he said.

Edwards said that currently, he is not only unhappy with the president’s proposed gun policies, but he is dissatisfied with the university’s policy.

Deputy Director of Campus Safety Services Charlie Leone said it’s against school policy to carry weapons on campus.

“By stepping on campus, I automatically lose one of my rights to defend myself in the best way that I can,” Edwards said.

Leone argues that students’ “best defense” is one that can potentially cause him harm.

“More often than not with weapons, more bad can come of it than good. It can be used against you, suicide rates are higher when there’s a weapon in the house or if you mix alcohol and weapons. A lot of bad can happen,” Leone said.

Leone said he believes that this area of defense should remain within the duties of the authorities.

“I’m not a proponent of carrying weapons for a number of reasons. One has to do with training, two has to do with I don’t know who you are carrying the weapon and I feel that it’s best left in the hands of the professionals, so to speak,” Leone said.

While Leone said no real issues have occurred with student-on-student violence in the past, he acknowledges that the debate is still prevalent.

“We’ve gotten calls over the last few years from students asking why they can’t, requesting to carry it. A number of students…don’t think it’s fair, those that carry guns,” he said.

Leone said he believes that the best weapon students can have against potential dangers is their brain and that there is no need for students to be carrying  a gun.

“When you look at the situation, I guess everyone has a right to defend themselves in their house but, again, more bad than good comes of it. A lot of the situations you can prevent, depending on what you’re doing,” he said.

The right to defend oneself through the Second Amendment is a belief that Erik Jacobs, chairman of the Temple University College Republicans, holds true.

Senior Mark Edwards shows his Glock-26 pistol. He said keeps guns in his off-campus apartment and said he doesn’t agree with Temple’s on-campus gun ban. | ELLEN PARKINS / TTN
Senior Mark Edwards shows his Glock-26 pistol. He said keeps guns in his off-campus apartment and said he doesn’t agree with Temple’s on-campus gun ban. | ELLEN PARKINS / TTN

Jacobs advocates that students arm themselves.

“I would definitely encourage students who live off-campus to take advantage of that and get their permits and get weapons for self-protection,” he said.

Jacobs said all students should get educated on their Second Amendment rights and exercise them.

“If you don’t use them, you could lose them,” he said.

Jacobs also looks at the gun control issue on a national level.

“I oppose gun control measures,” Jacobs said. “We have a Second Amendment right that says you can bear arms. That right is sacrosanct, just as the right to free speech and trying to curtail one amendment is no different than trying to curtail another.”

Jacobs does agree that more mental health checks and background checks could be employed when applying for firearms.

Fellow civic-minded student Dylan Morpurgo, president of Temple College Democrats, disagrees with Jacob’s stance.

“I whole heartedly support every piece of legislation the government proposes and supports in regards to gun control,” Morpurgo, a junior political science major, said.

Morpurgo said he does acknowledge that in the U.S., the public is granted the right to bear arms, however it needs to be done in a safe and sane way. In regards to the student body, Morpurgo said he believes in a stricter policy.

“I don’t think that anyone really needs to be carrying a handgun, whether that’s for good or bad reasons, protection or not,” Morpurgo said.

Similar to the beliefs of Leone, Morpurgo requests that that duty be left to the professionals.

“The police department is trained to deal with that situation in any way possible, without a gun being fired until the last possible absolute moment,” Morpurgo said. “Students do not have the training, they don’t have physical training, they don’t have the technical training, they don’t have the psychological training.”

Temple Student Government Student Body President David Lopez stated that this situation is complicated as it relates to the student body.

“I think when it comes down to it, it’s a very difficult gray area because the Constitution calls for one thing and what university policy dictates is something completely different,” Lopez said.

Lopez does, however, ultimately agree with Leone and Morpurgo in the notion that CSS is qualified to use the weapons and that doing so should be left to its officers, he said.

“We do have really great campus safety on our campus and for that reason I don’t think that students should feel the need to be armed for their own safety or protection,” Lopez said.

Leone said that if students still feel unsafe, alternative means of protection can be used. The Owl Loop shuttle, police escorts or rape aggression and defense courses that will soon be offered to men, are available at the university, he said.

Cindy Stansbury can be reached at cindy.stansbury@temple.edu.

11 Comments

  1. Every idiot that uses the 2nd Amendment to justify gun ownership is only ever half reading the entire Amendment.

    “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”

    The right to bear arm is relevant only to the idea of a well-regulated militia. We have well-regulated militias, The National Guard. We do not need 22 year-olds with Glocks and AR-15s strapped to them.

    • Well, you are full of it, you also need to sue your school for failing to educate you much less think for yourself.

      The second amendment as RATIFIED by the state’s and since the only version ratified by the states is the 1 comma version, it is the only one we will use to demonstrate your inherent lack of education.

      “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

      Maybe you can explain how for the entire history of English language, that the independent clause, a complete sentence capable of conveying a clear meaning, and must first exist for a dependent clause to have meaning, has always set the meaning of the complex sentence. (“the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”)

      Yet some now infer the dependent clause, an incomplete sentence, incapable of conveying a clear meaning (A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State) is now the determinator of the complex sentence meaning and history and English scholars have all been wrong throughout the history of written English. Have at it, but warn us when Hades will be freezing over for you actually having data to support your claim.

      http : // www . writingcentre . uottawa . ca / hypergrammar / sntstrct . html

      Lets see, have you removed the 30 plus references from the congressional writings 1774-1789 & the federalist papers showing well regulated as to meaning well trained in the arts of war? Much less all those dictionaries that say the same thing? No, you haven’t. Reference Karpeles Museum, CA.
      By the way, since it is the govt. duty to call to muster and train the militia, why is it they fail continuously to do their job and do so? Such a consistent trend govt. failing to do their job!

      http : // www . rain . org / %7Ekarpeles /

      Maybe you removed that original draft of what became the second amendment. You know, the one that was clearly written as a collective right, but then was changed to what exists today.

      original proposed draft 
of 
the right to keep and bear arms 
of the 
BILL of RIGHTS 
(17 TH of 20 amendments) on display at the Karpeles Manuscript Library 
Santa Ana, California

      “That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well regulated Militia composed of the body of the people trained to arms is the proper, natural and safe defense of a free State. That standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided as far as the circumstances and protection of the community will admit; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power.”

      Why did our founding fathers change the amendment draft if it was what they wanted?

      Oh that’s right, actions do speak louder than words. Ref Karpeles Museum, CA again.

      http : // www . wemett . net / 2nd_amendment_(original_draft) . html

      Then of course, here is the logic failure the anti’s always have. They always fail to prove, that the militia existed before the armed individual.

      The anti’s always fail to prove that a collective right can exist without the individual right first existing as how does a collective begin, oh that’s right, pre-existing individuals come together to form said collective, DOOOHH!

      Funny how all that was before the 2008 rulings eh?

      Funny how in the 2008 Heller ruling all 9 justices agreed that bearing arms was an individual right. That 5-4 vote was on the constitutionality of the Washington D.C. gun ban, read it, you will see!

      http : // www . law . cornell . edu / supct / html / 07-290 . ZO . html
      http : // www . supremecourt . gov / opinions / 09pdf / 08-1521 . pdf
      http : // www . gurapossessky . com / news / parker / pleadings . html (links to Amicus Briefs for Heller)

      (Slip Opinion) OCTOBER TERM, 2007 1 Syllabus
      NOTE: Where it is feasible, a syllabus (headnote) will be released, as is
      being done in connection with this case, at the time the opinion is issued.
      The syllabus constitutes no part of the opinion of the Court but has been
      prepared by the Reporter of Decisions for the convenience of the reader.
      See United States v. Detroit Timber & Lumber Co., 200 U. S. 321, 337.
      SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
      Syllabus

      DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ET AL. v. HELLER
      CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR
      THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT
      No. 07–290. Argued March 18, 2008—Decided June 26, 2008

      Page 3, last paragraph…

      478 F. 3d 370, affirmed. SCALIA, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which ROBERTS, C. J., and KENNEDY, THOMAS, and ALITO, JJ., joined. STEVENS, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which SOUTER, GINSBURG, and BREYER, JJ., joined. BREYER, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which STEVENS, SOUTER, and GINSBURG, JJ., joined.

      Cite as: 554 U. S. ____ (2008) 1
      BREYER, J., dissenting
      SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES

      No. 07–290

      DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, ET AL., PETITIONERS v. DICK ANTHONY HELLER ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT
      [June 26, 2008]
      JUSTICE BREYER, with whom JUSTICE STEVENS, JUSTICE
      SOUTER, and JUSTICE GINSBURG join, dissenting.

      Page 3
      Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” In interpreting and applying this Amendment, I take as a starting point the following four propositions,
      based on our precedent and today’s opinions, to which I believe the entire Court subscribes:
      (1) The Amendment protects an “individual” right—i.e., one that is separately possessed, and may be separately enforced, by each person on whom it is conferred. See, e.g., ante, at 22 (opinion of the Court); ante, at 1 (STEVENS,
      J., dissenting).

      I am sorry, but Breyers dissent was indeed joined by all dissenting Supremes and states very clearly (1) THE AMENDMENT PROTECTS AN “INDIVIDUAL RIGHT-I.E….ONE THAT IS SEPARATELY POSSESSED, AND MAY BE SEPARATELY ENFORCED BY EACH PERSON ON WHOM IT IS CONFERRED. SEE. E.G. ANTE AT 22 (OPINION OF THE COURT); ANTE, AT 1 (STEVENS J. , DISSENTING)

      Since a person who is a citizen is conferred the BOR you are going to have a really hard time convincing people this isn’t what it appears, or what was referenced earlier, that IT WAS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN AN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT!

      Oh waht is this, it is CURRENT US LAW!

      10 USC § 311 – Militia: composition and classes
      (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
      (b) The classes of the militia are—
      (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
      (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

      Wow, poop, is full a poop yet again!

      Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment . We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997) , and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001) , the Second Amendment extends, prima facie,to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.

      Now that we have demonstrated that you dont have a clue about our rights, lets continue with more govt. data and facts you cant refute rookie.

  2. What a liar Dylan is, then again, all socipathic progressives with a primal sadomasochistic need to tell everyone what they can or can not do are all inherent pathological liars!

  3. Geez, didn’t the government just create a right to health care a year ago, yeah, they are forcing everyone into a high-risk situation with no choice.

    Lets compare the safety of going to a doctor vs being around a CPL licensee since they are both rights.

    BATF Max 10 million CPL’s US, approximately 196 million age 21 or older or 5.3% of the people licensed for CPL.

    Possible deaths from CPL holders in 3 year time span from Violence Policy Center report 2009, 137 or 45 per year equals .0000045 per concealed license holder. You can also review Florida’s data on CCW at http : // licgweb . doacs . state . fl . us / stats / cw_monthly… it says the same thing.
    http : // www . medicalnewstoday . com / releases / 11856 . ph… Aug 2004, 700,000 doctors in US kill 44,000 to 195,000 by medical malpractice every year or .065 to.278 per physician.

    http : // www . medicalnewstoday . com / releases / 254341 . php
    JAMA http : // jama . ama-assn . org / cgi / content / full / 286 / 4 / 415

    Physician is .065 or .278 /.0000045 = 14,444 to 61,778 times more likely to harm you than a CPL holder.

    So where is the risk from concealed carry holders and why aren’t you antis crying to ban doctors?

  4. If you know how to read and google, maybe you should review the government report identified in the following news article on the INCREASE in violent crime on campuses eh?

    http : // www . livesecure . org / violent-crimes-increase-on-nations-college-campuses /

    The U.S. Dept of Education, the FBI and the U.S. Secret Service recently released an extensive research report (“Campus Attacks – Targeted Violence Affecting Institutions of Higher Learning”) that indicated the incidents of college campus violence had drastically increased in the past 20 years.

    http : // www . fbi . gov / stats-services / publications / campus-attacks / campus-attacks-pdf / view

    What is the risk being near a person carrying concealed.

    We see US Census 2008 18.4 mil students, 42% 21 or older, 4,300 schools.

    186 mil / 4,300 schools = 4,276 avg. students per school

    US Census 186 mil 21 or older, 8 mil cpl licensee’s BATF 8 mil / 186 mil = 4.3% of population has cpl license.

    18.4 mil x 42% = 7.728 mil x 4.3% = 332,304 / 4,300 schools = 77.28 avg. per school.

    77.28 / 4, 276 = 1.8% chance of being around a student who is carrying concealed. Oh wow, that is so scary and so dangerous.

    Based on your unsubstantiated fear, we should see thousands, uh no, hundreds, uh no, even tens of police reports showing you college students are identifying and assisting police in catching people who are carrying concealed today?

    Nope, you people can’t even see the criminals carrying concealed today, yet you are more afraid of law abiding citizens than criminals. Speaks volumes of your mental immaturity.

    Police more Dangerous

    Cato Policy Analysis No. 284 (http : // www . cato . org / pub_display . php?pub_id=1143&full=1) by Jeff Snyder states the cops are 11 times more likely to shoot the wrong person than a “civilian.”*

    “In fact, gun owners mistakenly kill about 30 innocent persons a year, one-eleventh of the number killed by police.”

    If public safety and eliminating these deaths are your main goal, then you should disarm the cops and arm the population!

    Based on the August 24, 2012 shooting by police where 9 bystanders were injured by ricochet’s and direct hits by police gun fire, that number will go up.

    Empire State building shooting 8/24/12, see em scatter, 9 innocents injured by police gun fire.
    http : // www . youtube . com / watch?v=EYWgrHwrlf8

    Do we need to link to the 3 people cops in Kalifornika shot by accident while chasing that rogue cop Dorner last week?

    James Alan Fox, a noted anti gun criminologist states in an August 2012 editorial in the Boston Globe; “No Increase in Mass shootings”, that based on data extracted from official police reports to the FBI, shows annual incident, offender and victim tallies for gun homicides in which at least four people were murdered. Over the thirty-year time frame, an average of about 20 mass murders have occurred annually in the United States with an average death toll of about 100 per year.

    Which agrees with Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written a history of mass murders in America, said that while mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, according to his data. He estimates that there were 32 in the 1980s, 42 in the 1990s and 26 in the first decade of the century.

    But hey, how can that be, when since you antis enacted the gun free victim disarmament zones where you progressives prefer children be killed freely, killings in said zones have quadrupled, with 60 of the last 61 occurring in said zones. (Gifford was shot in a parking lot).

    Based on actual facts, the only place such killings are increasing, is in your pet gun free victim disarmament zones where progressives prefer children are killed freely. Since the intellectually challenged antis believe in causality, you implemented the law and the killings increased, all their blood is on your hands.

  5. Your right, we should hold people and government accountable though.

    Lets identify who exactly is responsible for the majority of that violence first.

    The government acknowledges in USDOJ National Gang Threat Assessment 2011, see pg 14, chart #8 for that massive number of violent crimes committed in the US each year committed by gang members.

    For several decades, studies have been conducted on crime and causalities by various bodies including major universities, criminologists and even the U.S. Department of Justice. These studies have found that approximately 80% of all crime is committed by 20% of all criminals. Some of the studies have provided slightly different numbers but all of them have found that a small group of criminals commit a vastly disproportionate number of crimes than their peers.(Wolfgang et al ., 1972; Petersilia et al ., 1978; Williams, 1979; Chaiken and Chaiken, 1982; Greenwood with Abrahamse, 1982, and Martin and Sherman,1986).

    2.7 mil prisoners

    1.4 mil active gang members

    2.5-3.5 mil active criminals

    1 mil plus open felony warrants

    Hence add in the career criminals.

    CDC -Suicidal people speak for them-selves as suicide is a felony.

    Shall we review police firearm discharge reports in Chicago and NYC where between 76-80% of those involved in shootings, both shooter and injured were both involved in criminal activity at the time of the incident.

    www . popcenter . org / problems / drive_by_shooting / PDFs / Block_and_Block_1993 . pdf,
    www . nyc . gov / html / nypd / downloads / pdf / public_information / 2007_firearms_discharge_report . pdf,
    www . nyclu . org / files / nypd_firearms_report_102207 . pdf

    Yeah, review of all the govt. data above shows over 92% of all killings by illegal use of a firearm are committed by career criminals, gang members, suiciders & crazies w approximately 50% of the remainder due to domestic violence incidents. A sane person would normally address the largest problem first don’t you agree?

    Lets continue this review by acknowledging how many of the existing gun control laws actually apply to the bad guys.

    http : // supreme . justia . com / us / 390 / 85 /

    Haynes vs. U.S. 390 U.S. 85 1968 where the US Supreme Court ruled 8-1 in favor of Haynes that any law requiring a felon to self incriminate themselves and violate their 5th amendment rights was not enforceable as a charge for prosecution.

    Hence criminals don’t have to follow 85% of the existing 22,417 gun control laws that do so, e.g. your stolen weapons, registrations, background checks, etc….

    Would you care to suggest that the 5th amendment be repealed, no, don’t think you would!

  6. Then we should review how well those laws are enforced anyway.

    Like the BATF for refusing to prosecute more than 1% of the 1.83 mil felons, others, and crazies rejected by the background check since 1994.

    USDOJ Background Check & Firearm Transfer report 2008

    You do realize that there is a detail the antis & the govt dont point out about these rejections, that between 94.2% to 99.4% are false positives, where a mistake was made and the person rejected was not in fact a bad guy, you know, same name as a bad guy etc, etc,, govt. records arent the best. So sad that in fact in 2010 out of oh 76,000 initial rejections for being a felon, only 44 prosecutions, wow how, uh, PATHETIC, yeah pathetic.

    Like the BATF for refusing to catch ANY of those lying on their 4473 forms (Cho, Loughner & Holmes were crazy, they lied) or using fake identifications.

    cbsnews 2001/03/21 General Accounting Office study

    Like the BATF for refusing to do anything about the 95.52% of felons who don’t even attempt to buy from a licensed source to begin with.

    DOJ Firearms use by Offenders Nov 2001

    Like the BATF for refusing to allow civilians access to use the NICS background check for private sales as only licensed dealers are allowed.

    Lets not forget that our politicians play a significant role in enabling the crazies to go free. As a result of VA Tech, Pub. L. 110-180 NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 was enacted.

    The real question and failure, is what have the states actually funded or resourced for this mental health reporting to the NICS?

    Going to the actual NICS website, we see as of Dec 2012, there are only 1.83 mil records of people who by due process have lost their 2A rights for being severely mentally ill. Yet mental health experts agree that on avg. over 23.15 mil US adults (50% of current 2.7 mil prisoners) are severely mentally ill.

    http : // www . hrw . org / news / 2006 / 09 / 05 / us-number-mentally-ill-prisons-quadrupled
    http : // www . fbi . gov / about-us / cjis / nics / reports / 20130102_nics-index . pdf

    Don’t forget the NCIC FBI database showing over 1.043 mil open felony warrants in the US today. Uh where’s your data showing that 50% of these 1 mil people wanted aren’t severely mentally ill eh?

    So is that the 80 mil law abiding gun owners fault, BATF fault or the politicians fault, sucker question I know!

  7. Then of course the anti’s who consistently wish to blame inanimate objects for the rampage, yet based on government facts, the previous semi-auto rifle banned because they look evil, didn’t reduce violent crime in any fashion.

    How about the memo from NIJ in January 2013 stating clealry that AWB & Mag capacity limits wont reduce violence, LOL!

    Yeah, funny how the NRA got a cop and geez, the NIJ confirmed it is indeed authentic.
    http : // www . nraila .org / media / 10883516 / nij-gun-policy-memo . pdf

    Shall we look at the FBI report from several years ago?

    Violent Encounters – A study of Felonious Assaults on our nations law enforcement officers USDOJ, FBI, National Institute of Justice August 2006

    You should read the National Sciences Foundation report from 2004 on gun control laws, a study that was formed by the anti gun Clinton Administration so just like the Ludgwig & Cooke study noted below, doesn’t prove any causality theory, much less any effect of gun control laws on violent crime.

    An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003, National Institute of Justice, June 2004
    E.G. Government admits the ban didnt do didley squat

    Firearm Violence, a critical Review” 2004 says the same thing.

    Even more hilarious is the fact the antis try to manufacture a mountain out of a molehill.

    2010 FBI UCR database shows 1.25 mil violent crimes reported (4 mil not reported USDOJ National Victimization report), 322,691 involved a firearm, 14,748 murders, 358 by illegal use of any type of rifle, 162 by use of a semi-auto rifle banned because they look evil.

    (firearms were used in 67.5 percent of the Nation’s murders 14,748 = 9,955, 41.4 percent of 367,832 robberies =152,282, and 20.6 percent of aggravated assaults 778,901 =160,453.)

    All while in 2010 FBI UCR, we see deaths committed by illegal use of hands, fists, feet, blunt objects and knives accounted over 3,259 deaths, each by themselves accounting for far more deaths than the anti’s mythical boogeyman, the semi-auto rifle banned because they look evil.

    The anti’s really should get going on registering and banning hands, fist, feet, all type of blunt objects and all knives as clearly they are a more serious threat in the real world.

    Better make sure to ban clenching ones fist and flipping the bird as well as by legal definition, that is indeed brandishing of a lethal weapon.

  8. Shall we review how magazine capacity doesn’t affect didley, yeah, lets.

    It will be looked at as a time study, we who set manufacturing processes up do lots of these studies to accurately predict labor, material usages, predictions and savings.

    Response times by the police range from most times 10 to 12 minutes from first call.

    Witnesses identified shots were fired at 9:30 am when announcements were being made.

    The first call was 9:35:44 to police dispatch.

    In Sandy Hook, the first police officer arrived on site at 9:38:38!

    9:40:24 Last shots heard–Lanza killing himself!

    Time line:

    Adam Lanza tried to open a locked door, couldn’t, so he shot the glass out to gain entry upon which time the principal and school psychiatrist & vice principal came from the office and confronted Lanza who then killed two and wounded one. Total elapsed time, approximately 1 minute.

    Then Lanza walked down the hallway to the 1st kinder-garden classroom about 20 ft away, max time to do so, 15 seconds, where he killed 1 teacher & 14 students.

    Lanza then walked across the hall 25 ft away, max time 15 seconds.

    Where upon he killed another teacher and 6 students.

    Professional shooter can change a magazine in 1.4 seconds, someone familiar with the weapon, which Adam was, can do so in 3.0 seconds.

    Since we know that he fired approx 79 -100 rounds, using 30 round
magazines, and frequently changed them out after 10-15 rounds just as a veteran video gamer does, that is max 10 magazine changes x 3.0 seconds = 30 seconds.



    Cyclic rate for the semi-auto rifle/pistol is 60 rounds per minute so 1 shot for every pull of the trigger per second = 79 to 100 seconds.



    Total times 



    Office killing 1min=60secs

    Hallway walk to 1st room = 15 seconds

    Hallway walk to 2nd room = 15 seconds

    Shootings =79 to 100 seconds

    Reloads = 30 seconds



    199 seconds to 210 seconds total = 3.333 to 3.5 minutes



    Now if Lanza had been limited to 10 round magazines as antis
claim would limit the ease of killing, at 3 seconds reloads, needs say 20 mags based on his reloading habit magazines = 19 reloads x 3 seconds = 57seconds.



    That is an additional 27 seconds to the total = 3.783 to 3.95
minutes total.


    Reality is, limiting a shooter to 10 round magazines doesn’t prevent didley squat and you cant prove different!

    Speaking of 10 rnd magazines, Columbine killers Harris & Keibold used 10 rnd magazines to kill all them kids, hmmmm.

    VA tech killer Cho had 19, 10-15 rnd magazines, hmmmm.

    Yeah, so sad when simple math points out the error of the antis ways!

  9. Oh whats this, someone using an AR15 to defend themselves, how can that be, GASP!

    http : // www . myfoxdetroit . com / story / 21202112 / wild-shootout-at-inkster-tax-business-caught-on-camera

    http : // wjbk . images . worldnow . com / images / 21202112_BG1 . jpg

    Feb 14, 2013 Security guard with AR-15 exchanges gun fire with 2 robbers.

    Jan 24 Rochester NY student uses AR15 to scare two burglars off.

    July 4 2010, 15 yr old Houston teenager uses AR15 to defend his 12 yr old sister from a burglar, the teens dad is a cop, good job training your son!

    AR-15 Makes an excellent home defense weapon!

    For those unkowledgable about AR 15 and the fantasy that the round will magically pass through multiple houses, go to both the following links and see the tests! Oh FYI I put spaces between to disable the link, take em out and use.

    http : // how-i-did-it . org / drywall / index . html
    and version 2: http : // how-i-did-it . org / drywall2 /
    .
    The story below unfortunately ends with the homeowner arrested possibly because of the choice of using an AK. One reason I left NY for PA.

    http : // newyork . cbslocal . com / 2010 / 09 / 07 / long-island-man-arrested-for-defending-home-with-ak-47 /

    Sept 7 2010, Long Island NY.

    Sept 8 -Sept 21 2008, my fiancees family used SKS & AR15 to chase looters away from their and their neighbors property after Hurricane Ike hit!

    If you look, amazing how many pictures of the same thing happening when Katrina hit in 2005.

    Hey, how many Korean shop keepers sat on their roofs with SKS to ward of the rioters and looters in 1992, geez, ask the looters!

    Later links show that the prosecuting attorney refused to press charges as he was defending his home against a large group of gang members.

    Oct 20, 1997 Richard Garriot (Creator of Worlds of Warcraft, uber irch) stops intruder with a warning shot from an UZI!

    http : // www . youtube . com / watch?v=0_rz2wBYin4

    Nov 12 1990, Harry Beckwith’s Guns in Alachua County, Florida

    Sunbelt Arms in Decatur, GA. November 1982

    Their was that guy that worked for HK that defended himself and his girlfriend with a Ruger AC 556. Sunday, February 24, 1984, approximately 2 PM. Gary Fadden, 26, and his lovely 22 year old fiancee are driving from a birthday party in Martinsburg, WV

    Walt Whitman 1966, citizens retrieved their rifles and started shooting back.

  10. Lets review all these instances in gun free zones where someone did defend themselves, and geez, there is an 8 times less body count than where no resistance occured like at Lubys 1991, Columbine 1999, Va Tech 2007, N Illinois Univ 2008, FT Hood 2009, Gifford 2011, Aurora 2012, Sandy Hook 2012…..

    Here are those self defense incidents…

    December 17, 1991 Shoney’s Family Restaurant, Anniston, AL: 3 gunmen, 20 hostages, one ARMED customer (Thomas Glenn Terry). Police finally arrived to find one dead robber, one wounded robber and the third had fled when the shooting started. NO INJURED INNOCENTS.

    April 24, 1998 Edinboro PA 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students— when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home.

    October 1, 1997, Pearl High School: 1 gunman, 2 murdered, 7 injured: Stopped by ARMED vice principal.

    January 16, 2002, Virginia Appalachian School of Law: 1 gunman, 3 murdered, 3 injured. Killer was stopped when confronted by two ARMED students.

    Nov 20, 2005 Tacoma WA, 20 yr old juvenile delinquent shoots 4 (1 non gun shot wounded) then exchanges shots with an armed civilian wounding him, but then takes 4 hostages and holes up before surrendering to police.

    Feb 12, 2007 Trolley Mall Salt Lake Utah 1 gunman, 4 killed, 5 wounded before on scene off duty policeman shot and killed the heavily armed killer. Hundreds of people
still in mall when shooting ended before on duty police arrived.

    Dec 9 2007, Colorado Springs, New Life Church, 1 gunman 2 murdered, 3 injured, gunman stopped when armed woman who worked security shoots gunman, who then turns gun on self and commits suicide, while 100 other church members are in church.

    Winnemucca, Nevada in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with three hundred people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed carry license).

    June 11 2009 , Washington D.C. An 88-year-old gunman with a violent and virulently anti-Semitic past opened fire with a rifle inside the crowded U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum on Wednesday, fatally wounding a security guard before being shot himself by other officers, authorities said.

    May 4th, 2009 College Station Georgia 2 gunman, 10 victims, 1 dead gunman, 1 victim wounded. The 2 thugs robbing a party begin discussing if they have enough bullets to do the job. One man retrieves his firearm, kills one thug, chases the other off.

    January 4, 2010 A US Marshall and a security guard were shot about 8 a.m. January 4 in the lobby of the federal courthouse in Las Vegas, Nevada. FBI Special Agent Joseph Dickey said that the shooting suspect was shot and killed.

    August 7, 2010 Jerusalem; A security guard at the Ateret Kohanim yeshiva in the Old City of Jerusalem shot and killed a Palestinian man who snatched the weapon of another guard and used it to wound him.

    Aug 30, 2010 Sullivan Co. Sheriff Dept. officer Carolyn Gudger is the school resource officer and is shown outside Sullivan Central High School in Blountville, Tenn. Gudger was the resource officer who first confronted Thomas Richard Cowan who had two handguns with him as he entered the school on August 30, 2010. In doing so, she delayed the gunman long enough for the school to do a proper lockdown and backed the gunman away from his hostage. The gunman was later shot and killed by police!

    Aug 15, 2012 A gunman who shot a security guard Wednesday at the Family Research Council office in Washington, D.C., was carrying a handgun and several additional rounds of ammunition, federal investigators told NBC News.
    The wounded guard, identified as Leo Johnson, wrestled the gun away from the shooter and prevented him from hurting anyone else, police said. (Can we say the gunman was INCOMPENTENT)

    Dec 11, 2012 Clackamas Mall OR mall shooter Tyler weapon jammed when he saw Nick Meli, a cpl licensee drawing a bead on him.Tyler retreated into the stairwell, cleared his weapons malfunction and committed suicide rather than continue attacking and killing any more innocent civilians

    Dec 19, 2012 San Antonio TX off-duty police sergeant, identified as Lisa Castellano. Castellano was working as private security at the theatre when she saw the gunman with his weapon in his hand. Castellano fired 4 shots and hit the man once, immediately ended the potential shooting spree. Police say over 30 shots were fired, including the 4 fired by Castellano. The suspect, if he survives, will likely face capital-attempted murder charges since he fired at a police car at one point during the incident.
    January 1, 2013 Old Sacramento security guard Stefan Walton described the New Year’s Eve shooting that killed two people and how he says he stopped the gunman.

    Jan 31, 2013, ATLANTA, GA — A student opened fire at his middle school Thursday afternoon, wounding a 14-year-old in the neck before an armed officer working at the school was able to disarm and apprehend.

    Feb 1, 2013 Detroit MI, Police sources tell 7 Action News that a women’s basketball coach from Martin Luther King, Jr. Senior High School shot two men who attacked him as he was walking two basketball players to their cars in the school parking lot. Police sources say the coach was walking the two girls to their cars when two men allegedly approached and one pulled out a gun and grabbed him by his chain necklace. The coach then pulled out his gun and shot both of them, according to sources. The man who shot the attackers was 70 years old, according to police.

    People should get a clue what they are talking about and geez, havent even gotten to the tenth page of 100’s of govt. data and reports proving un control of the law abiding never reduces violence by the bad guys.

    Let us know if you want more information!

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