Emotions ran high at yesterday’s third Temple Student Government Senate meeting.
It had nothing to do with the Green Fee proposal, or the fact that the Green Fee student support list is now 1,600 signatures strong. Nor did the emotionally charged atmosphere of yesterday’s Senate meeting involve the passing of in support of the Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act that would increase the affordability of higher education.
The united and impassioned tone of the meeting was a direct result of the fiasco surrounding forthcoming guest speaker and Dutch parliament member Geert Wilders, infamous for his anti-Islamic, right-wing views.
After Muslim Student Association President Monira Gamal-Eldin released a statement expressing her disappointment and concerns about the event, her contact information was published on the Web site of conservative writer and activist David Horowitz. This led to a plethora of hate mail being sent to Gamal-Eldin, enraging her peers, including TSG Senate President Jeff Dempsey.
“Today, I have never been so ashamed to be a Temple student,” the senior political science major said in his opening statement. “The pervasion of hate is the pervasion of hate, end of story.”
He continued, “Just because you can invite a speaker so vile and so contemptible, doesn’t mean you should.”
After Temple College Republicans canceled the event, a series of events led to the event continuing, this time being hosted by Temple University Purpose, a group created “to advocate for justice and equality of oppressed and underrepresented populations,” according to its mission statement.
The ordeal led Eldin and TCR President Barry Scatton to address the Senate and its audience with compassionate speeches.
Scatton apologized on behalf of TCR and himself for any association between his organization a situation that has “caused so much hurt and trauma to the Muslim community on campus and to other students.”
He then condemned the event, as well as Horowitz’s Freedom Center, for the statements made in response to MSA’s statements about the event featuring Wilders. Scatton assured the audience that the Freedom Center’s views do not reflect his or TRC’s views.
Eldin’s moving speech, however, is what appeared to sweep the audience. She spoke about the difference between free speech and Wilders’ speech, citing an example in which he proposes an excise tax on hijabs, the head coverings that some Muslims wear.
“It is my free speech, my personal right to wear this,” Eldin said, fighting tears. “Him saying that we have to have an excise tax, is something that is taking that free speech away from me and anyone else wanting to openly practice their religion.”
Protestors, enraged over Wilders’s event, stood in support of the passing of Bill S09-5, a resolution Condeming the appearance of Geert Wilders, as well as disapproval of TU Purpose.
Before the bill was passed unanimously, Kylie Patterson spoke, also fighting tears.
“As said in the motion picture Spiderman, ‘With great power comes great responsibility,’” she said. “Temple Student Government does not, nor will it ever, support hate speech.”
“Anything that does not benefit the student body as whole, that puts students in danger or that makes students feel insecure on campus is something … that we will not stand for.”
Josh Fernandez can be reached at josh@temple.edu.
“The pervasion of hate is the pervasion of hate, end of story.”
Indeed. Does mister Dempsey feel the same way about the barrage of threats that Geert Wilders has received for the last several years? Horrific threats, by individuals who upon investigation proved to be credibly dangerous. Does mister Dempsey remember the threats from Jihadi organizations to behead Geert Wilders?
Does Ms. Gamal-Eldin remember those threats?
It looks like the Temple Student Government needs a lesson in civic responsibility, civil rights, and the liberal and democratic value system. Perhaps they should go back to school.
I’d like to see the ‘hate’ mail that Ms Eldin received. Muslims love to cry ‘wolf’ about this sort of thing. THey’re always worrying about something called the ‘backlash’ while never seeming to be concerned with the ‘frontlash’ created by their co-religionists all over the world — thousands and thousands of terrorist attacks by men (mostly) calling on Allah and the Qur’an as justification. Let’s get this ‘hate’ thing in perspective!
1) It must be clear by now that most Muslims totally identify themselves with their religion/ideology to the extent that even they cannot tell them apart. 2) Nobody likes to be told the truth in front of others, especially friends and family. In order to save face the best thing to do is boldly deny any accusations and try to discredit the accuser. The other possible reaction is to totally lose control of self and physically attack the accuser in order to eliminate and silence him or her.
3) Judging by all the commotion he is causing among Muslims and their friends, Mr. Wilders must be telling a lot of truth about Islam.
Wilders is a provocateur, simple as that. He feeds on what he believes to be Dutch complacency, and uses the fear of an impending “Mozlem” invasion to gain political prowess. Does it deserve to have threats against his life? No, of course not. But, you can’t promote/say things like “Muslims don’t deserve the same freedom of religion” or “tax the headscarf-wearing Muslim women”, or compare Islam’s ideological/spiritual founder to a “terrorist”, and NOT receive backlash. Don’t stir up the nest and not expect to get stung! Ms. Eldin has done no provocation of such. She’s entitled to voice her opinion and concern. To send hate mail over her objections simply shows the character of these loons who defend Geert and his ideology.
And, by the way, the objections to Weelders was not by Muslims alone. If any of you were at the event at Temple, you would realize that the sizable majority of people (non-Muslim, btw) were clearly in opposition to him. If the media didn’t give him so much attention, his lecture probably would have had around 40-50 people, max.
I’m appalled by the responses to this article from the above three people. The reason why Geert Wilders received so many dangerous threats couldn’t be any more obvious. The fact alone that Wilders was once kicked out of the United Kingdom, a “Western” nation, should prompt immediate understanding that his speech is not tolerated in Eastern OR Western societies. Any decent human being would oppose his derogatory rhetoric. Wilders even had to cut his Q&A session short because he was unable to sway the opinions of an audience who clearly found his views offensive, full of hate, and contradictory. And the beauty of those who opposed him tonight? The majority of the people were Non-Muslim. What do you have to say to that? And for the record, Wilders doesn’t know a thing about Islam. You want to know about Islam? Read the Qur’an and study it the right way.
The only hate speech I saw was hate towards Wilders and hate towards free speech.
Look at this video and get a clue wat it is all about.
The islam is fascism of the worst kind and people who stick up for a doctrine like that are clueless or fascists themselves.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8105709395775858867
Wow. If Anastasia and bob23bob are Temple students, they have a David Duke-like anti-Muslim streak that is quite appalling for college students.
Anastasia claims there are “thousands and thousands of terrorist attacks by men (mostly) calling on Allah and the Qur’an as justification. Let’s get this ‘hate’ thing in perspective!” The real problem, Ana, is the collective punishment you heap on all Muslims (and especially Palestinians) by cheerleading for Wilders, and spewing propaganda that attempts to negate David Horowitz’s hateful publication of Ms. Gamal-Eldin’s contact info on the web which “led to a plethora of hate mail being sent to [her].” Now that’s putting this ‘hate thing’ in perspective!
Here’s Bob23 doing his best David Duke impression: “[M]ost Muslims totally identify themselves with their religion/ideology to the extent that even they cannot tell them apart.” Imagine if Bob23 used the word “African-Amerians” or “Jews” instead of Muslims. Would that be hate speech? You betcha.
Please get in a time machine and back to the deep South in the 1950s if you have that kind of supremacist attitude.
Ayisha said:The fact alone that Wilders was once kicked out of the United Kingdom, a “Western” nation, should prompt immediate understanding that his speech is not tolerated in Eastern OR Western societies
And this is the decision of a UK judge:
oct 13. Dutch MP Geert Wilders has won an appeal against a Home Office decision barring his entry to the UK.
The Asylum and Immigration Tribunal ruling overturns a government decision that led to Mr Wilders being turned back at Heathrow in February.
And TempleGrad said: But, you can’t promote/say things like “Muslims don’t deserve the same freedom of religion” or “tax the headscarf-wearing Muslim women”
Why can’t you say that as there are laws in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia which does not allow christians to expose their religion. By law it is not allowed to import the holy bible and by law all women are forced, even the christians, to wear a headscarf.
And how can Ayisha advise us to read and study the Qur’an as the law in Iran as well as in Saudi Arabia are based on that Qur’an? Is that freedom of religion. I do’nt think so. Mr Wilders is not fighting the muslim, but he is fighting the intolerance in the islam against the unbelievers,christians, jews aso.
Jan. (Holland)
I’m sure the students in this story were all for the appearance of Ahmadinejad from Iran at Columbia University. Stupid empty headed liberals.
Wilders’ power and popularity grows as non-Muslims learn more about Islam, and see how few ordinary Muslims confront Islamists, violent or otherwise. If the majority of putatively peaceful Muslims publicly refuted the doctrine of violent, jihadist, Islamism, using Qur’an and Hadith, there would be no need for Wilders, and he would have no power or popularity. As it is, when Muslims speak out against ‘terrorism’, they actually refuse to admit, maybe even to themselves, that ‘Islam proper’ has the ability to motivate Muslims to kill, to subjugate, to oppress.
Rather than pretending all the various and sundry Muslims all over the globe are arriving at the same jihadist conclusions because of America’s foreign policy, or because of Israel, peaceful Muslims need to take their faith back from the atavistic, power hungry mullahs, sheiks and imams who use hatred and conflict to protect and enhance their power.
God, or Allah, created humans with a brain. Human Muslims decide which parts of the Quran and Hadith they want to emphasize. Where is the love, my Muslim brothers and sisters?
Jhimmi,
You are perpetuating the BIGGEST LIE about Muslims when it comes to condemning violence, terrorism, and injustice in the world. We do not need to “take back our faith” because (1) we are speaking out, (2) the media isolates and ignores our voices, and (3) the overwhelming MAJORITY of Muslims are peaceful and Loving people — we, the MAJORITY, define ourselves and our way of life. Anyone who has MUSLIM FRIENDS or has ever visited a Muslim family’s house knows this.
As the Muslim author and screenwriter Kamran Pasha writes: “Every single major Muslim group in the United States has been outspoken in their condemnation of terrorism and the murder of innocent people in the name of Islam. And yet the media ignores it. Every single time.”
Visit this link to view a huge list of Muslim organizations and groups that condemn terrorism: http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
To cite Kamran Pasha again, below “is a compilation of Islamic fatwas against terrorism by Juan Cole, scholar of the Middle East and author of
‘Engaging the Muslim World.'”
http://www.juancole.com/2005/07/friedman-wrong-about-muslims-again-and.html
Have you ever visited a Mosque, jhimmi? Do you have Muslim friends? Have you ever attended inter-faith or inter-cultural meetings before? Ever attended an MSA meeting? Have you read books like “The Muslim Next Door” written by Sumbul Ali-Karamali? What about the works of other Muslim-American authors?
Your objective is to make Muslims look like monsters. You are generating the suspicion that Muslims silently support terrorism and that is nothing more than a pathetic and cold-hearted attempt to discredit all of the hardwork we do. The nation of Iran had candlelight vigils for the victims of 9/11, millions of Muslim-Americans, including my mother, shed tears for the victims of 9/11 and PRAYED for them.
We not only speak out against extremists from so-called Muslim countries, but we also have to deal with anti-Muslim extremists like Geert Wilders, Robert Spencer, and other Islamophobes. Your own prejudices blind you from the hate crimes and discriminatory acts against Muslim-Americans that have been on the RISE since 9/11. I study Islamophobia in the United States, I have many of the statistics and incident reports — reports that you do not even hear about in the mainstream media.
I am making an inter-faith film about Muslim, Christian, and Jewish unity — what are YOU doing for peace? What efforts are YOU making to build positive and peaceful relations between Muslims and non-Muslims? I’ve visited Synagogues and Churches to interview Rabbis and Pastors for a multiculturalism documentary I made last semester. I take every opportunity to speak out about Islam and how it is a peaceful religion. Your comment is insulting, offensive, and ignorant because you ignore the efforts that Muslim-Americans and non-Muslim-Americans have been making to increase awareness about inter-faith interactions and peace.
Do not speak for Islam or for Muslims when you obviously know nothing about us.
jan van rooijen says:
Mr Wilders is not fighting the muslim, but he is fighting the intolerance in the islam against the unbelievers,christians, jews aso.
Jan. (Holland)
—-
let it be clear that jan van rooijen does not represent the opinion of the dutch voters. A majority of the dutch voters reject is opinion and his proposals to treat moslims as second hand citizens. Some literal samples taken from newspapers in the netherlands:
“Article 1 of the Dutch Constitution, the non-discrimination,
I want to eliminate ”
Geert Wilders, March 21, 2006″
Should it ever come to racial riots, I really do not want, does it not automatically be given a negative force.”
Geert Wilders, Volkskrant, 9 oktober 2004
“I deny anyone a family life. Even non-western immigrants are not. They may marry, they can be together. But not in the Netherlands. ”
Geert Wilders, Volkskrant 7 oktober 2006
http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.watwilwilders.nl%2Fuitsluiten.html
—-
These are some samples of Wilders idea about dutch society. He is not just objecting islam as a religion, but also all immigrants. specially Moslims.
So please US students, let your voice hear and let Wilders know that freedom can only be true, if all men and women can truly profit Freedom in the same way as all others. Freedom is about equality. If Wilders can speak out, so must a moslim be able to speak out. If Wilders is free to choose his clothes, so must a moslim. That is true freedom. A Freedom that Wilders denies. He wants to exclude all moslims. [deport them as he said on the danish televison]
His Hate speech move towards an society that only the chosen are free. Immigrants, moslims are not the choosen. That makes him a dictator.
fight him, help us fight him. Demonstrate, call out, fight him with arguments, show the world that the US is still the country that truly believes in Freedom for all!!
Regards
Johan Eerkens
The netherlands.
Sure Jan van Rooijen does’nt represent the majority of dutch voters. Jan van Rooij did’nt even give his vote for parliament to mr Wilders. There is not one party in the Netherlands who has a majority. Majority only is possible when 3 party’s agree to form a coalition. On this moment de PVV party from Wilders is doing very well in the poll’s. On this very moment it is the biggest.Even the leftist party’s are closing in to the views of Wilders. Why? That is because the voters do’nt believe any longer the points of view from the old leftist party’s and run away to the liberals and yes also to de PVV from Wilders.
My personal opinion is that not one moslim has to leave the Netherlands. Moslims can be good citizens like christians, jews and unbelievers. But they have to obey Dutch laws, learn our language and yes also some of our custums. When you want to wear a burqua or a headscarf as a religious expression yes that can be a problem and when you want to wear, as man, a long arabian dress it is sure hard to find a job within dutch society.The same problem is there for a man in a Volendammer costume and this is typical dutch?. Nobody will employ him.
So as Johan Eerkens says dat the majority of dutch voters rejects Wilder’s views that’s seems to simple. Problaby that is what he wishes. I believe that a majority of the voters are like me and see some good things in Wilder’s views. Not all but the political landscape in the Netherlands is changing very fast. And that is because our country have huge problems with the integration from people from islamic countries like; Marocco, Somalië, Pakistan, Afganistan,and others. Dancing maroccans in the streets on nine eleven, ritual killing from van Gogh, Unemployment from mostly islamic youngsters, dropout from our schools, hate to gaypeople, hate to jews. Yes my country is changing, but not into the direction most people want. And yes islam is a part of the problem and also the ignorance of our political party’s and governmentofficials.
Jan
Wilders is in the polls not the biggest party. The leading polls, synovate and nipo, put him on 3rd place. Only Peil puts him first. But his way of polling is sincerly critised. [unreliable]
In the period before the 2006 elections, Peil predicted up to 25 seats for Wilders.Synovate and Nipo came to 12. He ended with 9.
There is a huge difference between polls between elections and actual elections. People have different reasons when they fill out polls and certainly different reasons when they vote. So, yr polls mean nothing.
The moslim in the netherland obey dutch law! How says its different? They dont differ from any other citizen.
About a 100 to 150 female moslims where a burqua on a total of close to one million moslims. is that a problem? I dont think so. And there number is decreasing.
Furthermore. The situation in foreign countries like in the Middle East, do no represent the situation in Holland. The argument that those developments will occur in Holland is not fact based. The opposite. The number of moslims liable for conservative ideas is decreasing. The number of them visiting conservative moskene is decreasing. The number of childbirth by average moslim family is close to the dutch.
All reports from various organisations in the netherlands show that Wilders is wrong. Muslims integrate better and better in the netherlands. The fear of an increasing muslim society is based on nothing. On nothing at all.
Wilders has never shown any reliable facts to support his arguments. Even the figures shown in his film Fitna are false!
Johan everybody sees his own reality. And your’s different from mine and a lot of other people.
Is Wilders view reality? No.
Is yours reality. Also no!
And what about mine view. That is just a view.
And so a lot of people are thinking. But still Wilders popularity is rising. And about the poll. Is the poll from Peil also wrong for the other partys?
yes everyone has his own perspective of reality. But if wilders was even remotely right, some of it should show up in the reports that investigate the developments within the netherlands. Well, it doesnt.
furthermore, his popularity is not rising, but decreasing. In the polls he used to be on 32, now is he down at 25. So….
And Peil is in general unreliable. There is even a book about his mistakes, [What 93,7% of the dutch voters should now about polls – WL Tiemeijer]
ps: The social party, pvda, used to be up to 50 seats in the period towards the elections. They ended at 33.
So don’t put yr money on polls.
The popularity of Wilders can better be explained from the social and cultural developments over the last years.
Such developments are:
*Fast changing society due to globalisation. Significant changes in work and more interaction with other countries and workers from those countries
* Increasing influence of the European Community. EU has increased in size considerable, but no real answers to the large gap between the ‘old’ and ‘new’ countries
* Neglecting the problems in the neigborhoods due to long periods of declining investments in those areas. Thus resulting in a declining level of quality of living in those areas.
* many immigrants were attracted to the netherlands in order to work and help with expanding our economy. IN the eighties the economy collapsed and many of the immigrants became jobless. Mainly due to low education and little knowledge of the dutch language
* The present crisis in Finance and Environment.
These changes and large uncertainty about the future, tends that people become more liable for people like Wilders. He simplifies the reality and points out a scape goat: Muslims.
This is not new. Before people from Suriname were pointed out as scape goat. before that the Yellow danger, before that the Red danger etc.
History shows that in periods like this, people like Wilders get a chance.
History also shows that it can turn real ugly. We should be aware of that.
He suggests that if the muslims wouldnt be there, we wouldnt have any problems. This is of course a false argument.
The solution is not to blame a specific group but to commonly work on a society in which freedom, equality and democracy is quaranteed for all people.
Wilders is not supporting but blocking that process. Our democracy is has withstand many threads, by standing by it’s principles. If wilders calls for elimanation of our first amendment, he is braking down what our fathers have build.
“Those who give up their essential liberties for security deserve neither.”- Benjamin Franklin.
Banning Muslims from the Netherlands does not solve the problem of extremism and prejudice. Instead, it fosters more hatred towards the country from Muslim populations. In order to live peacefully amongst ourselves, despite differences in religious, cultural, or political beliefs, we must learn to be accepting. Just tolerating different people is not enough, we must understand that we live in a global world now where we will be dealing with people from all different backgrounds. Taxing the hijab (headscarf) and stopping immigration is counter-productive and goes against the so-called “democracy”, which Wilders refers to in his speeches. If the U.S., a democratic nation, were to go around taxing the hijab and banning immigration, we would be going against the very doctrine, which makes this country beautiful…the Constitution!
I’m a Muslim and I live moderately and I abhor extremists who contort the verses of the Qur’an to suit their NON-Islamic agendas. In order to understand Islam, one must study the Qur’an properly WITH regard to it’s historical context. Study the Qur’an in a proper institution with commended scholars. To generalize Muslims, which make up over 1/6 of the world’s population, is a serious offense and must be refuted by anyone who has common sense.
Also, the posting of Monira Gamal-Eldin’s personal e-mail address online is completely and totally unjustified and could lead to a serious lawsuit especially if threatening e-mails were received. If any of you attended the speech, I’m sure you noted the ignorance and anger of Horowitz when he tried to stop a student from speaking freely. Clearly, Horowitz and his organization do NOT support freedom and use non-violent threatening gestures to intimidate others. I will not stand for this and neither should any of you.
Ayisha, with all due respect your stance shows not only your ignorance but also your immaturity. Muslims bring anti_Israel speakers to campus (hate that you probably condone) yet when someone turns the tables and gives you a taste of your own medicine you can’t take it. It just shows how insecure Islam really is. They are afraid of critiicsm. If not they would have ignored Wilders. Wilders will not be silenced, neither will I or millions of others around the world who are sick of Islamic medieval theology.
All over the world Muslims are fighting with their neighbors, ie, Israel, chechnya, Kashmir, South Sudan, Western China (xinjiang province,) and now here in the west they’re trying to silence us. Its time we put a stop to it!
The QUr’an is filled with hatred for Jews and Christians. Please read it. Muslims are leaving Islam in droves all over the world once they read (and translate) the 9th century Arabic. Read Ibn Ishaq’s “Life of Mohammed” and you will be horrified at the behaviour of the founder of Islam.
Ibn Ishaq’s “Life of Mohammed” was written in the 9th century and is a revered Islamic text — not ‘infidel’ ‘hatred’ or ‘lies’ — It is sickening to discover that the man whom Muslims emulate all over the world ‘a beautiful pattern of conduct’ as he self-describes in the QUr’an — was a… well… read it and find out for yourselves. Don’t take my word for it.
@jackson
All over the world Muslims are fighting with their neighbors, ie, Israel, chechnya, Kashmir, South Sudan, Western China (xinjiang province,) and now here in the west they’re trying to silence us. Its time we put a stop to it!
You better show why these muslims are in battle:
Israel: this is original palestine country. Not untill the beginnning of the 20th century, the number of Jews increased. helped by the Uk and France.
In 1967 Israel started to deport the palestine to the now called ‘occupied areas’. I think the palestine have a good reason to fight for there freedom.
Kasmir: Those are the taliban. Driven from afghanistan by the Western coalition. Now attacked by the Pakistan government.
Sudan: a civil war. Sudan has been corrupted for more then 20 years. The western world failed to step between. This country is completely teared apart and savaged by as well muslim as christen terrorists
China: all religions are prosecuted by the Chinese government. Even the christen religion[Falong] That is also a fight for freedom. Freedom of religion. Isnt that a right from the UDHR?
Since WOII there is one country that started the most wars. The US[sorry to say, but those are the facts]
There isnt a country that has put his foot on some many countries as the US. Compared to the US, the fight of Muslims is childplay. Just think of South and middle america. The Far east. There ongoing support of Israel and S.Arabia which is the most! conservative muslim country in the world.
Maybe the western world should learn to accept that there are countries and religions that are different from there own, and that they have as much right to freedom as we do. We have trampled that rights for many decades.It’s time that we acknowledge our role and take responsibility. Not to continue to ignore or fight them, but thru cooperation and acknowledge eachother rights.
That approach will lead to more mutual understanding. And as we see her in the netherlands, the more they become involved the more they appreciated the advantages of freedom and democracy. The muslims in the netherlands don seek to implement the Sharia or strive for domination. They just want to live there own lives, build a future, have families etc, just like every other citizens. Muslims arent demons. There just people like you and me.
Or as Sting said: Russians love there children too. So do muslims
@jackson
Wilders doesnt just ‘fight’the muslims. He is also a threat to our basic freedom. A man that calls for the elimanation of constitunional articles such as:
Art1 – non discrimination
Art 6 – Freedom of religion
Art 12 – freedom of school and education
A man who calls to scrap those articles, is not only affecting muslims. He is affecting the entire population of the netherlands. This fact is constantly ignored by those how favor Wilders. They close there eyes for the real danger. This is the beginning of a dictatorial regime. Wilders declared in a interview with the BBC and with danish television that he wants all immigrants out of the netherlands.
How much more evidence to you need jackson?
you can continue to hammer on the nasty articles in the Koran, which is true, but please read the bible again and read the Thora. Especially the Thora is the most horrifying religion book. Not even the Koran is that worse.
I as well, as atheist, reject religion. But i also acknowledge and accept that people are free to write, read and believe whatever they want, as long as they respect our constitution.If they brake our constitution, Go to Court! that;s why we have courts
furthermore: I hever heard a anti israel demonstrater say that he or she wants to change our constitution.
So you comparisement on that point is flaw.
Johan Eerkens is a muddle-head. He says that since world war 2 the US started most wars as they were in the south- and middle Americas, the far east and so on.
Is it thrue that the US started these wars? No, as a world power they became involved. And in some wars, like Vietnam, they were dragged in.
Did they start the Korean war? No that was the North.
Did they start Vietnam? No that was France.
Did they start Cambodja and Laos, No.
Did they start the wars between Israel and its neighbours, No.
Did they start the war between Jordania and the PLO? No
Did they start the wars between Pakistan and India? No.
Did they start the short war between China and Vietnam? No.
Did they start the wars between South Africa and Angola, No.
Did they start the war between Maroc and Algeria? No
Did they start the war between Argentina and the UK? No.
Did they start the war between Etheopie and Eritrea? No.
Did they start the war between Serbia and Bosnie Herzogewina, Serbia and Croatie aso.
Yes they did attack the taliban in Afganistan after nine eleven.
And yes they attacked Irak, But with a coalition of NATO and other countries.
For the leftist in the Netherlands ( and Europe) and Johan Eerkens is one of them, it is use to blame the US for almost everything. Even for things they never did.
@ Anastasia,
You are trolling. I responded to you in another post and even cited verses from the Qur’an that are peaceful towards Jews and Christians. They are even given a title in Islam: Ahl al-Kitaab, or “People of the Book.” In other words, they’re not considered “infidels,” or “kaffirs,” as you like to fantasize about.
It seems that you don’t care about having Muslim friends. I feel very sorry for you.
Jehanzeb,
My name is Bryan Mann, I am the President of All Sides at Temple University and was one of the organizers of the protest among many other leaders. I do not know if you will read this, but if you do I am interested in learning more about the film you are making about Muslim, Christian, and Jewish unity. I am a Jewish student here and I do not know if you are a Temple student but if you are I would be interested in learning more and possibly getting involved. Please get in touch with me via email at bryan.mann@temple.edu.
Thanks,
Bryan
jan says:
“No, as a world power they became involved”
Well that is a way to put it. How do you call that: plausible denial?
Besides. I dont vote Left wing party. Sorry to say for you.
I like to quote jackson on this:
…yet when someone turns the tables and gives you a taste of your own medicine you can’t take it.
That applies most certainly for people how favor Wilders. They just cant stand critism and start with Ad Homimem arguments.
Only a small minority of Germans were truly fanatical Nazis, but because the moderate Germans didn’t take them serious, they got pulled into these fanatics’ sheer madness until no one dared to differ any more and everybody became a tool or instrument (= having no free will) of this totalitarian regime.
Speak and act up while you may, because if you don’t, you might lose those privileges and much, much more sooner than you think.
PS How much freedom of speech can one find in any of those Muslim countries? How well would a Muslim version of the “Life of Brian” go down? Do they have a sense of humour? Are they capable of self reflection? How healthy is it to not be able to tell apart yourself from your religion (“If you insult Islam you insult all Muslims”)? If you can’t tell the difference anymore between yourself and what you believe in, do you still have sovereign control over your own will? If you don’t have sovereign control over your own will have you then not become a tool of the totalitarian ideology that you have taken for a religion?
Johan. OK, your right. I do’nt kwnow you in person and so I can’t say you are a leftist. But Wilders is not chosen in parliament with my vote. So how can you say that Jan van Rooij(en) does not represent the opinion of the dutch voters.Is that maybe a Ad hominem statement to? Maybe I am a sample of dutch voters who are confused by the rapid changing society with its huge problems. Dutch politicians from left to right have denied problems with the integration of immigrants with a islamic background.And yes I’am concerned about that because I can not see in which way our politics will tackle these problems.
End of this discussion.
I know and have known a number of moslems. All seemed to be very nice, educated, successful people. But just as many hate groups like the Aryan Nation, poorly educated people drawn or indoctrinated to a strong ideology pose a danger to any free society. Islam is no different. Any religion which supports and encourages suicide bombings of civilians and promises a reward of virgins is perverted. Then to reward the families of the so called martyrs denigrates it even more. What does that say about the adherents of that faith? There are at least two sides to Islam and one side is evil.
The temple students who shouted down Mr. Wilders are apparently afraid to scrutinize and question their own beliefs. It takes courage to do so and more to admit you might be wrong. College like all of life should be a place to learn and experience divergent views, before forming an opinion. It is much easier to go with the group think than to question everything and challenge the accepted. Ask Copernicus and Galileo.
Would the students of Temple shout down Lord Monckton for pointing out the egregious errors and misrepresentations in Al Gore’s “Inconvenient Truth”? It is not accepted, PC speech but many will find it offensive because it challenges their deeply held beliefs. Even with new scientific proof, they will rail against it.
This link is to a film, made by an Devout Moslem who has been made an outcast for asking the same questions about the radical undercurrents in Islam as Mr. Wilders has addressed.
http://www.thethirdjihad.com/
Are any Temple students up to the challenge of questioning their beliefs?
No one should be threatened for what they say. No one should be afraid to die if they criticize something.
I believe South Park has the greatest assessment of this in their episode about Family Guy, after airing an episode showing the prophet Muhammad, the Muslim world released their own video in response, which was Americans pooing on each other… then Jesus pooed on them.
See, that’s an acceptable retaliation. What’s not acceptable behavior in a free world is Theo Van Gogh having his throat slit for criticizing the treatment of women in the Muslim world.
Am I for the conservative psycho and fear-mongering Geert Wilders? Absolutely not. But should people have to fear for their lives as a result of making a film criticizing something? No. Never.
Violence is never acceptable, for it leaves society in Monologue rather than Dialogue. -MLK
OBAMA LOVES HATE BILL
Go ahead, Mr. President. Sign the “hate” bill. By doing so you will help to fulfill the predicted repeat of the “days of Lot” in Luke 17 – days which today seem anxious to outperform their ancient counterparts! You have already been helping to fulfill the predicted repeat of the “days of Noah” in the same chapter – that is, violence towards the unborn which presently is matching, if not surpassing, the violence that forced God in Genesis 6 to announce that He would soon destroy everyone except Noah and his family. Mr. President, by helping to fulfill both of the above “days” you will discover that God has His Almighty veto over what you say and do!
Jackson, why is that when people like you talk against Islam you always bring Palestine and Israel into the issue? Israel is a PLACE not a religion. So before you begin your nonsensical retorts, think about what you are referring to. That’s the only argument you people have, forget about the issue of Wilders speaking, let’s just start talking about Palestine and Israel!! (which has NOTHING to do with Wilders coming to Temple?) Seriously, why even go there? Stick to the real issue at hand and that is Wilders and his suggestions that we stop immigration, kick out Muslims, and basically ban religious expression, not only in the U.S. but in Europe too. Because that’s not prejudice or hateful speech right?
I was on the executive board of the Temple MSA for two years, we never brought “anti-Israel” speakers to our events. Have you ever even attended any of the MSA’s events? Its speakers come from a variety of backgrounds, MANY of them Non-Muslims. In fact, if you know a thing about the MSA you will know that it holds a Peace Not Prejudice week every year which always includes an interfaith dialog evening. These interfaith dialogs are an effort by the Temple MSA to embrace different religious expressions and beliefs on campus. The MSA ALSO holds its annual Fast-a-thon event where it invites Non-Muslims to fast for a day during the holy month of Ramadan and then provides them and other Muslim students with a dinner. Non-Muslims are invited to speak at this event too to discuss their experiences with Muslim religious traditions. So the Muslims on campus, not only welcome Non-Muslims to their organization but also invite them to speak. Read the Temple MSA’s mission statement. The MSA does NOT get involved with political matters such as the Israel/Palestine conflict. Speakers who come to Temple MSA’s events speak solely on the basis of religious and/or related academia. Can you even name one event or speaker that has attacked Non-Muslims in his/her speech? No, you can’t. So the only ignorance I see here are your comments.
Muslims are not afraid of criticism. We will stand up for our rights to freedom just like ALL people do. We are no different then gays/lesbians who fight for their rights to have legal marriages or minorities discriminated in the workforce. It has nothing to do with giving people a “taste of their own medicine.” And when did peaceful protesting ever become illegal? So a speaker, who we find highly offensive, comes to our campus and we are just going to let him silence us? NO. This is the beauty of the First Amendment, it empowers us to defend and express ourselves. We won’t be silent because people like you think we are wrong for defending our religious beliefs.
If you are so anti-Islam, go and protest on campus and get your own support. And fyi, the majority of people who spoke out against Wilders during the Q&A were Non-Muslims who not only defended Islam and Muslims but also defended the rights of all others who felt attacked by Wilders’ speech.
I take it Mecca is just a place, as well? Just a piece of land, right? It isn’t the religion, is it?
Muslims need to do more than say they condemn ‘terrorism’ or the killing of ‘innocents’. Terrorism and innocents are words that can be defined any way you want. If Hamas suicide bombers blow up a market in israel, is that terrorism, or resistance? What about if women and children are blown up? The women will bear Israeli children. the children will grow up to be adult Isaelis. So it’s all good, right? No infidel is truly innocent, after all.
Does mainstream Islam (Sunni and Shia) tell Muslims to emulate Mohammed? Simple question. Does mainstream Islamic law consider Muslims and non-Muslims equal before the law? Does mainstream Islam consider men and women equal before the law? Are punishments the same for Muslims and non-Muslims in all circumstances? Are punishments, under Sharia, the same for men and women in all circumstances?